With the cast established, their motivations solidified, the stage set and the first volleys already thrown in the original, John Woo is able to just sit back, relax, and make the thoroughly indulgent epic action picture he always wanted in its sequel. Where the first film thematically leans more in the direction of theology and politics, backed by a brief taste of large-scale military maneuvers, this follow-up is a full-gale blast of battlefield planning and dramatic execution. History buffs may grimace at a few of its flashier moments, like the warrior who uses his spear to pole vault over enemy battalions, but those are rare enough to write off as passing fits of eccentricity from a director who's not always known for his realism. Besides, the real sizzle lies with the world-class, hour long battle scene that closes the picture - and the obscene amount of fascinating war maneuvers seen therein. It's the mother of all fight scenes, an intense, unrelenting thrill ride the likes of which hasn't been seen from the west in decades, if ever. And, as Woo addresses one of my biggest complaints about the first Red Cliff - the generic, evil-for-the-fun-of-it enemy commander who's admirably rounded out in a few powerful scenes - it's ultimately an even better effort than its predecessor. A thrilling, intense, large-scale classic that makes for one hell of a payoff.
38 Reviews
A superb sequel that is still as good as its predecessor.....
rockyunderscore29 April 2009
I guess i do not need to explain this part in detail. Part I has already explain much of the style and depiction of the movie. And all i could tell you is that its great. Part II starts where the 1st one left off. The 1st defeat of Cao Cao's army didn't make the PM any less confident as he is about to commence his second army to take the charge. The Navy. He's determine that he will take down Red Cliff like an iron fist. Meanwhile, Zhou Yu and company are finding ways to cripple the large naval fleet that Cao Cao has already settle in opposite side of their fort.
With characters already introduced in the 1st part, the movie didn't seem to lose the magic as it keeps surprise audience in it's story. This part starts off with the latter half focusing entirely on character development. The final half goes in for the battle. Just like part I, the battle scene still packs a huge punch at your guts with many brilliantly choreographed movements and kinetic action. The ending ends up in a very fair manner but that's up to you to decide.
Anyways, it's still as good as the 1st part. One of the best film adaptation from novels. Many should know it's basically the same thing because it was shot back to back. So what really determines how good is part 2, you'll have to watch part 1 first.
8.8 out of 10 rating.
With characters already introduced in the 1st part, the movie didn't seem to lose the magic as it keeps surprise audience in it's story. This part starts off with the latter half focusing entirely on character development. The final half goes in for the battle. Just like part I, the battle scene still packs a huge punch at your guts with many brilliantly choreographed movements and kinetic action. The ending ends up in a very fair manner but that's up to you to decide.
Anyways, it's still as good as the 1st part. One of the best film adaptation from novels. Many should know it's basically the same thing because it was shot back to back. So what really determines how good is part 2, you'll have to watch part 1 first.
8.8 out of 10 rating.
The Point of War - A Review of Red Cliff II
andydreamseeker6 February 2009
Red Cliff, the film by John Woo based on the epic battle of Romance of the Three Kingdoms is divided into two parts. While the first was engaging in its depiction of such historical characters in Cao Cao, Zhuge Liang and Zhou Yu, the second is all about war itself, which can be a little daunting to some. But that is just how war is.
You see, war is not about a spontaneous fight between two opposing parties. It has nothing to do with sword wielding 'cling clang' or battle cries and fistfights. The distinction has to be made since war is by far a larger context than a battle, although war itself consists many. In Red Cliff II we will see what is at play when war is raged. It cannot be pretty can it? But it can as this is the romanticized version of history and on screen John Woo made it even prettier.
The cast is strong with Tony Leung Chiu-wai as viceroy Zhou Yu, Takeshi Kaneshiro as adviser Zhuge Liang and Zhang Fengyi as Cao Cao, to name just a few. The list is long. A good cast will more often than not up the aesthetical appeal to a movie. For the female audience, Tony Leung charms with his manly portrayal of Zhou Yu, and Takeshi Kaneshiro is always a pleasure to watch as he liven every scene with wit and humor. For the male audience, it is the childlike yet seriousness of Zhao Wei as Sun Shangxiang, and Lin Chi-ling's poise and compassion as Xiao Qiao that allures.
But can war really be pretty? If you think that killing each other is a good way to express beauty then perhaps you can be on the same page as the tyranny Cao Cao. In part 1, where the emphasis of battle was on land with a very elaborate tactic devised by Zhuge Liang, here in part 2 we witness the battle at sea, physically and psychologically.
Back to the main topic of war, it is crucial that victory must be sorted as numerous lives are heavily at stake, whether or not these lives are valued or not, be they as added numbers or as friends. In war the emphasis is on strategies and tactics to win. And on strategies and tactics, I guess we no doubt have to consult Sun Tzu's The Art of War and also take reference to The 36 Stratagems.
I can refer that the epic battle of Red Cliff has two points that stood out when referenced to The Art of War and that is The Attack By Fire and The Use Of Spies.
Recorded in the 36 stratagems is the use of the enemy's own spy to sow discord in the enemy's camp by Zhou Yu. This famous move is of correlation to The Art of War where it is stated as having converted spies, getting hold of the enemy's spies and using them for our own purposes. In war all can be done, there can be no holds barred because any weakness can be exploited by the enemy. Zhou Yu can be said to have brilliantly disposed off of Cao Cao's main strategic threat because Cao Cao slain both his most dependable generals who are most versed in sea battles.
When 50,000 has to fight 200,000, who could blame Zhou Yu for such tactics, especially when Cao Cao first provoked by sending dead soldiers across to Zhou Yu's side on wooden rafts, knowing that disease spread through this mean can greatly weaken his enemy.
The other account decisive of the battle of Red Cliff is the Chain Strategem, although modified by John Woo in its depiction, with the key in Lin Chi-ling's character, Xiao Qiao.
It is interesting to sit through 141 minutes witnessing a romanticized version of John Woo's Red Cliff. Personally I didn't feel that it was long, however to some who wanted to see a Lord of the Ring's type battle on screen could be disappointed.
Sun Tzu's The Art of War states that the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple before the war is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but a few calculations before hand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose.
The point of war however is that in war everybody loses. This should be what John Woo's Red Cliff is trying to tell us. I agree wholeheartedly with water in my eyes.
You see, war is not about a spontaneous fight between two opposing parties. It has nothing to do with sword wielding 'cling clang' or battle cries and fistfights. The distinction has to be made since war is by far a larger context than a battle, although war itself consists many. In Red Cliff II we will see what is at play when war is raged. It cannot be pretty can it? But it can as this is the romanticized version of history and on screen John Woo made it even prettier.
The cast is strong with Tony Leung Chiu-wai as viceroy Zhou Yu, Takeshi Kaneshiro as adviser Zhuge Liang and Zhang Fengyi as Cao Cao, to name just a few. The list is long. A good cast will more often than not up the aesthetical appeal to a movie. For the female audience, Tony Leung charms with his manly portrayal of Zhou Yu, and Takeshi Kaneshiro is always a pleasure to watch as he liven every scene with wit and humor. For the male audience, it is the childlike yet seriousness of Zhao Wei as Sun Shangxiang, and Lin Chi-ling's poise and compassion as Xiao Qiao that allures.
But can war really be pretty? If you think that killing each other is a good way to express beauty then perhaps you can be on the same page as the tyranny Cao Cao. In part 1, where the emphasis of battle was on land with a very elaborate tactic devised by Zhuge Liang, here in part 2 we witness the battle at sea, physically and psychologically.
Back to the main topic of war, it is crucial that victory must be sorted as numerous lives are heavily at stake, whether or not these lives are valued or not, be they as added numbers or as friends. In war the emphasis is on strategies and tactics to win. And on strategies and tactics, I guess we no doubt have to consult Sun Tzu's The Art of War and also take reference to The 36 Stratagems.
I can refer that the epic battle of Red Cliff has two points that stood out when referenced to The Art of War and that is The Attack By Fire and The Use Of Spies.
Recorded in the 36 stratagems is the use of the enemy's own spy to sow discord in the enemy's camp by Zhou Yu. This famous move is of correlation to The Art of War where it is stated as having converted spies, getting hold of the enemy's spies and using them for our own purposes. In war all can be done, there can be no holds barred because any weakness can be exploited by the enemy. Zhou Yu can be said to have brilliantly disposed off of Cao Cao's main strategic threat because Cao Cao slain both his most dependable generals who are most versed in sea battles.
When 50,000 has to fight 200,000, who could blame Zhou Yu for such tactics, especially when Cao Cao first provoked by sending dead soldiers across to Zhou Yu's side on wooden rafts, knowing that disease spread through this mean can greatly weaken his enemy.
The other account decisive of the battle of Red Cliff is the Chain Strategem, although modified by John Woo in its depiction, with the key in Lin Chi-ling's character, Xiao Qiao.
It is interesting to sit through 141 minutes witnessing a romanticized version of John Woo's Red Cliff. Personally I didn't feel that it was long, however to some who wanted to see a Lord of the Ring's type battle on screen could be disappointed.
Sun Tzu's The Art of War states that the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple before the war is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but a few calculations before hand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose.
The point of war however is that in war everybody loses. This should be what John Woo's Red Cliff is trying to tell us. I agree wholeheartedly with water in my eyes.
In war, nobody is a victor. Its better to enjoy rice flour n sugar cookies. Epic war film.
Fella_shibby26 March 2021
I first saw the 148 mins version in 2009 on a dvd which I own.
Saw the 288 minutes version few days back.
I liked the 148 mins version but i liked the 288 mins version even more n inspite of the runtime, i never felt like fiddling with my phone. In fact, i found the film very captivating.
The film has tons of action. A true old school war with tons of bows n arrows, spears, swords, horses, ships, etc.
Apart from the battlefield action sequences, all the characters are awesomely developed, the cinematography is lovely n some of the scenes are picturesque.
There is absolutely no shaky cam or fast cut editing. One can easily make out what is going on during the war scenes. None of the scenes is shot in too much darkness.
We have a daring character Gan Ning (Nakamura Shido II) who does a stint like Steve McQueen's character from Hell is for Heroes. I love both the scenes.
The hand chopping scene, the sword slashings n the spears piercing, are all brutal.
After finishing the film, rice flour and sugar stayed on my mind. I tried the recipe on YouTube.
Some drawbacks - The initial scene with the baby on the back n running n fighting is lol n far fetched.
John Woo had already done this mistake in Hard Boiled with the baby peeing n all.
Another far fetched n lol scene in this movie is that of catching a woman in midair.
Saw the 288 minutes version few days back.
I liked the 148 mins version but i liked the 288 mins version even more n inspite of the runtime, i never felt like fiddling with my phone. In fact, i found the film very captivating.
The film has tons of action. A true old school war with tons of bows n arrows, spears, swords, horses, ships, etc.
Apart from the battlefield action sequences, all the characters are awesomely developed, the cinematography is lovely n some of the scenes are picturesque.
There is absolutely no shaky cam or fast cut editing. One can easily make out what is going on during the war scenes. None of the scenes is shot in too much darkness.
We have a daring character Gan Ning (Nakamura Shido II) who does a stint like Steve McQueen's character from Hell is for Heroes. I love both the scenes.
The hand chopping scene, the sword slashings n the spears piercing, are all brutal.
After finishing the film, rice flour and sugar stayed on my mind. I tried the recipe on YouTube.
Some drawbacks - The initial scene with the baby on the back n running n fighting is lol n far fetched.
John Woo had already done this mistake in Hard Boiled with the baby peeing n all.
Another far fetched n lol scene in this movie is that of catching a woman in midair.
The Epic and Exciting Conclusion That Made it All Worth it.
cadillac2025 November 2009
If the first part of the series was the set up, here is the pay off. I was disappointed at the end of the first part when big To Be Continued words filled the screen. But it was worth the wait. When it comes to Chinese epics, it gets no better than this. Mostly an incredibly long, epic battle, this second part pays off in spades. It's more exciting, smarter, and more edge of your seat. Every minute leaves you anticipating the next and the conclusion is very fitting. You almost don't want it to end, despite the huge running time. John Woo has succeeded in creating one of the grandest Asian epics ever made, and this series of films should cement him as one of the finest Asian filmmakers of all time.
impressing battle scenes, a feast for the eye
eva-verstraelen10 January 2009
Although historically far away from the facts, this movie is a feast for the eye with impressive battle scenes, great costumes, good acting and a few really good one-liners ! Not your typical martial arts movie, but a story worthwhile watching ! I would recommend to watch this on the big screen in a theater with good sound, otherwise a lot of the movie will get lost. Try to read some of the history that the movie is based upon, it will enable you to understand the plot quite a bit better. Some excellent lessons in ancient warfare are to be learned here. Although the end is more or less predictable, I enjoyed every minute of the movie.
commentary
alfxxl015 April 2009
It's the best strategy film I've seen, except perhaps "The Godfather - trilogy" and it's in many ways similar to the game "Shogun", only this one it's a lot more personal, making you reflect at the never-ending complexity of life.
There are some improbable twists in the movie,but those give it a more personal touch and after all,without those turns, the movie would be plain sad.
The "Art of war" at home, where it was first elaborated and applied - magnificent.
You should definitely see this one.
There are some improbable twists in the movie,but those give it a more personal touch and after all,without those turns, the movie would be plain sad.
The "Art of war" at home, where it was first elaborated and applied - magnificent.
You should definitely see this one.
Exciting
mmushrm29 April 2011
Red Cliff 2 is a good action pic. Even though we already know the result the movie still manages to keep it exciting and suspenseful. Granted artistic license were probably taken with the story but who cares, its a movie not a historical documentary.
That being said there were a few parts of the movie that defied belief. The shu princess as a spy and how easily she manages to accomplish her mission. The final battle was also some what disappointing, too much CG explosions.
But the biggest thing for me is ........... its NOT a propaganda movie. Thank you John Woo for that. I was expecting a "we must stand together and sacrifices must be made for the country to be united and prosperous" message that we have been getting from most of the Chinese "historical" epics. There wasn't any :) Good movie, good visuals, good acting.
That being said there were a few parts of the movie that defied belief. The shu princess as a spy and how easily she manages to accomplish her mission. The final battle was also some what disappointing, too much CG explosions.
But the biggest thing for me is ........... its NOT a propaganda movie. Thank you John Woo for that. I was expecting a "we must stand together and sacrifices must be made for the country to be united and prosperous" message that we have been getting from most of the Chinese "historical" epics. There wasn't any :) Good movie, good visuals, good acting.
The Greatest Chinese Epic
ebiros223 June 2012
The battle of the Red Cliff, which is the climax from the first half of "Romance of the Three Kingdom" by Luo Guanzhong is perhaps the most spectacular war story in all of Asia. Until the outbreak of Russo-Japanese war, it certainly was one of the biggest battle of the region, and perhaps the biggest in terms of numbers of people involved.
Director John Woo assembled an international talent of actors to create this one of a kind epic movie. He's described it as 50% fictional, but he must have put lot of thoughts into the fiction part, because all the filling that he puts in works to enhance the story, and brings excitement to each scene.
The story is somewhat long, and for ones who are not familiar with the historic saga of this battle, may feel that it's overly protracted, but the movie was geared mainly for the Chinese audience (China bankrolled the film), who are intimately familiar with the characters described in this story. I'm sure many went to the theaters to see their favorite heroes come to life.
The casting is done exceptionally well, as they convey the authority of the characters they are playing. Clever casting from different countries around Asia (China, Korea, Japan, and Taiwan) ensured that people of those countries will not see it as foreign film, but one of their own.
This certainly is the best warrior based movie to come out of China, and even for the jaded director John Woo, the greatest masterpiece. Superbly crafted movie, and equally superb story telling, captures all the highlights of the Battle of the Red Cliff.
Part 1 was good, but this blows the doors off of Part 1.
One of the greatest movie to come out of Asia.
Director John Woo assembled an international talent of actors to create this one of a kind epic movie. He's described it as 50% fictional, but he must have put lot of thoughts into the fiction part, because all the filling that he puts in works to enhance the story, and brings excitement to each scene.
The story is somewhat long, and for ones who are not familiar with the historic saga of this battle, may feel that it's overly protracted, but the movie was geared mainly for the Chinese audience (China bankrolled the film), who are intimately familiar with the characters described in this story. I'm sure many went to the theaters to see their favorite heroes come to life.
The casting is done exceptionally well, as they convey the authority of the characters they are playing. Clever casting from different countries around Asia (China, Korea, Japan, and Taiwan) ensured that people of those countries will not see it as foreign film, but one of their own.
This certainly is the best warrior based movie to come out of China, and even for the jaded director John Woo, the greatest masterpiece. Superbly crafted movie, and equally superb story telling, captures all the highlights of the Battle of the Red Cliff.
Part 1 was good, but this blows the doors off of Part 1.
One of the greatest movie to come out of Asia.
Epic Turned into an Average Hollywood Flick...
i_have_a_m1615 March 2009
First of all, the cinematic in both Chi Bi I and II are amazing. Colors and sceneries are stunning. Battle scenes from the ships burning to blood spilling off of the cold steel of Zhao Yun's lance are unprecedented in Chinese films. Also, the computer graphics in the movie is a big step up from Chen Kaige's Wu Ji (The Promise 2005).
Other than the visual component of the movie, everything else is unfortunately a failure. I have been been anticipating the movies since late 2007. There had been a trend of Chinese movies trying to mimic Hollywood and impress westerners. I was hoping that Chi Bi would turn out to be an eastern epic of its own since it is based on one of the greatest battles within 4500 years of Chinese history. Yet after being very unsatisfied with the first movie, Chi Bi II: Jue Zhan Tian Xia was even more disappointing. Here are 4 reasons why it was a failure:
1)Characters: Other than Zhuge and Zhou Yu who were depicted in details, most other characters were very one-dimensional. For example, Cao Cao was portrayed as an arrogant, ambitious, and brutal man who makes his own decisions. In the movie, he became the all powerful villain that everyone feared. However, Cao Cao in the story was supposed to be very intelligent, benevolent at times and Charismatic, with many brilliant advisors he often took suggestions from. Not only did Cao Cao give me the impression of Xerxes in 300, it erased other sides of his personalities which made him interesting. Furthermore, John Woo failed to portray Liu Bei as a powerful man who would rise to be the ruler of one of the three kingdoms. In Chi Bi II, he delivered the impression of man who feared death who even had trouble inspiring his own men.
2)Hasty Modification of the Plot: In order to fit most of the key events leading up to the battle within a series of two films, many events were simplified or re-written. For example, Pang Tong - one of the most intelligent characters in the original book was cut out from movie. Instead of his phony surrender to Cao Cao and proposing the method of linking the ships together, it was simplified to a short dialog between Admiral Cai informing Cao Cao of his decision to link the ships. Also, Zhou Yu punishing his general Huang Gai with one hundred back lashes to deceive Cao Cao for the reason of Huang Gai's surrender was modified into Xiao Qiao's (Zhou Yu's Wife) decision of seducing Cao Cao to stall time. Furthermore, themes with Zhuge "borrowing the wind", Cao Cao's escape in Hua Rong Dao were reduced to a prolonged battle scene. With so many events holding great significance which contributes to the ultimate miracle at Chi Bi cut out, the plot of the movie became very predictable, unimpressive, and even confusing.
3)Very One Sided, Zhou Yu in Super Hero Mode: Zhou Yu was supposed to be the mastermind commander behind Sun Quan's army, but with average ability to combat. Yet, in the movie, Zhou Yu was chopping away in tens and thousands of soldiers like Achilles to save his wife. In fact, it was more like a gang of super heroes (Liu, Guan, Zhang, Zhao, Sun)unstoppable against Cao Cao's army. Ironically, none of them actually fought at Chi Bi, it was fought by their generals who were never mentioned. In the original story, Cao Cao also brought with him his best generals (Xiahou Yuan, Zhang Liao, Xu Chu, Xu Huang, Zhang He...etc) who were intelligent and were extremely skilled warriors. Neither were they mentioned. It made the battle seem less dramatic because Cao Cao's men were almost like obsoletes. Cao Cao's generals were portrayed as clueless cowards who hid behind the fences.
4) Misleading Scenes and Redundancy: John Woo put his main focus on the characters of Zhou and Zhuge portraying their friendship and intelligence, which totally missed the point of the intricacy of their alliance. Zhou was constantly jealous of Zhuge's intelligence, and was trying to find every reason to kill him. In fear that Zhou Yu would prevent Liu Bei from becoming a power, Zhuge was also working to protect his master Liu. John Woo's attempt to expand on Zhuge's character with the scene of him delivering a baby horse in the first movie was totally unnecessary, in fact it was absurd. As if there is no one else who knew how to deliver baby horses within the entire army.
Chi Bi Zhi Zhan (Battle of Chi Bi) was between Cao Cao's army of close to one million against 50,000 combined forces of Liu and Sun. The victory was supposed to be a miracle. It was the combination of strategies, weather, geography, from intricate planning. Yet John Woo made it a two men show of Zhuge and Zhou. The over simplification was ultimately resulted in disappointment. It leaves the wrong impression on those who does not know about the story. Overall, Chi Bi had good material to work with, but ended in failure.
Other than the visual component of the movie, everything else is unfortunately a failure. I have been been anticipating the movies since late 2007. There had been a trend of Chinese movies trying to mimic Hollywood and impress westerners. I was hoping that Chi Bi would turn out to be an eastern epic of its own since it is based on one of the greatest battles within 4500 years of Chinese history. Yet after being very unsatisfied with the first movie, Chi Bi II: Jue Zhan Tian Xia was even more disappointing. Here are 4 reasons why it was a failure:
1)Characters: Other than Zhuge and Zhou Yu who were depicted in details, most other characters were very one-dimensional. For example, Cao Cao was portrayed as an arrogant, ambitious, and brutal man who makes his own decisions. In the movie, he became the all powerful villain that everyone feared. However, Cao Cao in the story was supposed to be very intelligent, benevolent at times and Charismatic, with many brilliant advisors he often took suggestions from. Not only did Cao Cao give me the impression of Xerxes in 300, it erased other sides of his personalities which made him interesting. Furthermore, John Woo failed to portray Liu Bei as a powerful man who would rise to be the ruler of one of the three kingdoms. In Chi Bi II, he delivered the impression of man who feared death who even had trouble inspiring his own men.
2)Hasty Modification of the Plot: In order to fit most of the key events leading up to the battle within a series of two films, many events were simplified or re-written. For example, Pang Tong - one of the most intelligent characters in the original book was cut out from movie. Instead of his phony surrender to Cao Cao and proposing the method of linking the ships together, it was simplified to a short dialog between Admiral Cai informing Cao Cao of his decision to link the ships. Also, Zhou Yu punishing his general Huang Gai with one hundred back lashes to deceive Cao Cao for the reason of Huang Gai's surrender was modified into Xiao Qiao's (Zhou Yu's Wife) decision of seducing Cao Cao to stall time. Furthermore, themes with Zhuge "borrowing the wind", Cao Cao's escape in Hua Rong Dao were reduced to a prolonged battle scene. With so many events holding great significance which contributes to the ultimate miracle at Chi Bi cut out, the plot of the movie became very predictable, unimpressive, and even confusing.
3)Very One Sided, Zhou Yu in Super Hero Mode: Zhou Yu was supposed to be the mastermind commander behind Sun Quan's army, but with average ability to combat. Yet, in the movie, Zhou Yu was chopping away in tens and thousands of soldiers like Achilles to save his wife. In fact, it was more like a gang of super heroes (Liu, Guan, Zhang, Zhao, Sun)unstoppable against Cao Cao's army. Ironically, none of them actually fought at Chi Bi, it was fought by their generals who were never mentioned. In the original story, Cao Cao also brought with him his best generals (Xiahou Yuan, Zhang Liao, Xu Chu, Xu Huang, Zhang He...etc) who were intelligent and were extremely skilled warriors. Neither were they mentioned. It made the battle seem less dramatic because Cao Cao's men were almost like obsoletes. Cao Cao's generals were portrayed as clueless cowards who hid behind the fences.
4) Misleading Scenes and Redundancy: John Woo put his main focus on the characters of Zhou and Zhuge portraying their friendship and intelligence, which totally missed the point of the intricacy of their alliance. Zhou was constantly jealous of Zhuge's intelligence, and was trying to find every reason to kill him. In fear that Zhou Yu would prevent Liu Bei from becoming a power, Zhuge was also working to protect his master Liu. John Woo's attempt to expand on Zhuge's character with the scene of him delivering a baby horse in the first movie was totally unnecessary, in fact it was absurd. As if there is no one else who knew how to deliver baby horses within the entire army.
Chi Bi Zhi Zhan (Battle of Chi Bi) was between Cao Cao's army of close to one million against 50,000 combined forces of Liu and Sun. The victory was supposed to be a miracle. It was the combination of strategies, weather, geography, from intricate planning. Yet John Woo made it a two men show of Zhuge and Zhou. The over simplification was ultimately resulted in disappointment. It leaves the wrong impression on those who does not know about the story. Overall, Chi Bi had good material to work with, but ended in failure.
Epic Excitement
sn31914 December 2014
After the fantastic first part, the second starts a little underwhelming. This film isn't quite as action packed as the first, instead building to the amazing finale. So there's about an hour and a half of each camp planning attacks and working to defeat the enemy. There are some really good parts here (especially how the rebels procure arrows) but it all pales in comparison to the massive, explosive finale. It's one of the best war scenes ever put to film and absolutely exciting.
Overall, this is a masterpiece of film and one of the best war movies of all time. It's well worth your time.
Overall, this is a masterpiece of film and one of the best war movies of all time. It's well worth your time.
Red cliff 2!
helmutty10 January 2009
The final battle is here! It continues from where it last stop. It also shows flashbacks to those who forget the story of part one. There is still John Woo's slow motion. There is a big epic battle, probably the biggest battle scene you have ever seen in a Chinese movie. But, somehow, I am slightly disappointed with it. I guess I would have expected more in the battle scene or at least, a better showdown with the two characters (I can't say who) at the last part. Despite the minor thing, it is still good as I am entertained with the intensity in it.
The story: It continues where the part one stops. As they are all getting ready for the last major war, you don't expect to see much characters' development. You get to expect to see cunning tricks played by both sides. As the first part, there is some humour in it. The battle scene is probably one of the best battle scenes I have seen. It is unlike other Chinese war movies and probably Hollywood ones too, the battle is extended and long. In other war movies, you just see cuts of the battle. Acting is still good with some of their humorous face expressions.
Overall: Everyone should give Red cliff a watch. It is unique, different from other war movies. Those, who watched the first part, obviously should watch this too. I will wait for the box set DVD featuring both movies in. The first movie DVD has no special features.
The story: It continues where the part one stops. As they are all getting ready for the last major war, you don't expect to see much characters' development. You get to expect to see cunning tricks played by both sides. As the first part, there is some humour in it. The battle scene is probably one of the best battle scenes I have seen. It is unlike other Chinese war movies and probably Hollywood ones too, the battle is extended and long. In other war movies, you just see cuts of the battle. Acting is still good with some of their humorous face expressions.
Overall: Everyone should give Red cliff a watch. It is unique, different from other war movies. Those, who watched the first part, obviously should watch this too. I will wait for the box set DVD featuring both movies in. The first movie DVD has no special features.
The art of controlling the weather
chaos-rampant6 October 2015
I'm always amazed to consider how much culture and worldview the Chinese have stored in them and how little of it has been tapped yet. Compare with American films, how many we get on our screens all across the world and what trivial philosophy supports them. The Chinese are still in a process of committing their vast narrative to first images.
So with these two films, it seems at this point that getting down the chronicle in a simple way and make it boisterous entertainment was enough. We get history that flattens and oversimplifies, good lords against cruel despot, freedom against oppression, and swathes of conflict without nuance. We get a lot of chintz and scale. The first movie was without worth, but they tap into something else with this second one.
Most of it is taken up by the machinations of the two rival sides for control over the narrative; ways to tip on their side the fateful battle before it begins the next day across the Yangtze. Some of it simple, rafts with infected bodies sailed into the opposite side. A spy manipulated to spread a false story. It's the main stratagem however that elevates it to something more, gathering up a different view than just opera.
The stratagem is that the direction of the wind on the fateful night when navies meet is going to be crucial, wind having the power to decide the course of empire depending on which way it blows, north or south. The Way of Heaven (as Chinese viewers will know it) central in how fates dispense worldly order.
This is what's being set up in an earlier sequence where one of the protagonists (who we have registered before as a kind of Confucian adviser to a lord) is able to stage and manipulate illusion (the barges with straw soldiers to gather up arrows) by having the knowledge of observing the structures of Nature - warm morning wind after a cold night means a fog that day.
And yet it still could have gone either way that night, the balance as fickle as a candleflame in the wind. It's the loving wife who has changed sides hoping to avert the war who tips the balance that night; seducing the tyrant with a tea ceremony that is just buying her husband time, another staged illusion that comes from knowing how to observe the weather of Man, fickle desire tricked by beauty.
The ensuing battle is a rip-roaring wind that blows north and rolls up an entire landscape of boats, men, and fortifications. This is the part with the spectacle most viewers will want to see.
I'd rather keep with me all the other stuff and how it suggests a vantage point rooted beyond appearances. They come from the far center of Chinese soul. Spontaneous nature carrying the way (the Chinese character for "heaven" also invokes "nature", "sky" and "spontaneous"). Letting yourself bend to the way of the wind, timing the pull. Weather in and out. I can imagine it coming from the hands of a tea master like Wong Kar Wai, who can make the camera bend to the way of things, permitting us to take our own place within them; love, regret, memory. Woo just forces things in his way like a warlord. The scene where the spy woman (the most spirited being here) returns from the enemy camp and she lets the fabric with the map unfold from her body - that's Kar Wai.
So with these two films, it seems at this point that getting down the chronicle in a simple way and make it boisterous entertainment was enough. We get history that flattens and oversimplifies, good lords against cruel despot, freedom against oppression, and swathes of conflict without nuance. We get a lot of chintz and scale. The first movie was without worth, but they tap into something else with this second one.
Most of it is taken up by the machinations of the two rival sides for control over the narrative; ways to tip on their side the fateful battle before it begins the next day across the Yangtze. Some of it simple, rafts with infected bodies sailed into the opposite side. A spy manipulated to spread a false story. It's the main stratagem however that elevates it to something more, gathering up a different view than just opera.
The stratagem is that the direction of the wind on the fateful night when navies meet is going to be crucial, wind having the power to decide the course of empire depending on which way it blows, north or south. The Way of Heaven (as Chinese viewers will know it) central in how fates dispense worldly order.
This is what's being set up in an earlier sequence where one of the protagonists (who we have registered before as a kind of Confucian adviser to a lord) is able to stage and manipulate illusion (the barges with straw soldiers to gather up arrows) by having the knowledge of observing the structures of Nature - warm morning wind after a cold night means a fog that day.
And yet it still could have gone either way that night, the balance as fickle as a candleflame in the wind. It's the loving wife who has changed sides hoping to avert the war who tips the balance that night; seducing the tyrant with a tea ceremony that is just buying her husband time, another staged illusion that comes from knowing how to observe the weather of Man, fickle desire tricked by beauty.
The ensuing battle is a rip-roaring wind that blows north and rolls up an entire landscape of boats, men, and fortifications. This is the part with the spectacle most viewers will want to see.
I'd rather keep with me all the other stuff and how it suggests a vantage point rooted beyond appearances. They come from the far center of Chinese soul. Spontaneous nature carrying the way (the Chinese character for "heaven" also invokes "nature", "sky" and "spontaneous"). Letting yourself bend to the way of the wind, timing the pull. Weather in and out. I can imagine it coming from the hands of a tea master like Wong Kar Wai, who can make the camera bend to the way of things, permitting us to take our own place within them; love, regret, memory. Woo just forces things in his way like a warlord. The scene where the spy woman (the most spirited being here) returns from the enemy camp and she lets the fabric with the map unfold from her body - that's Kar Wai.
funny
etudiantemo11 January 2009
The massive battle scene reminded me of the "magnum opus"- Hero directed by Zhang Yimou years ago, and the last "classic lines"( I lost the battle due to the whirl of wind and a cup a tea) by Cao Cao triggered my laughter nerve and Chen Daoming's classic line in Hero "The ideal Realm of Sword is "Peace" immediately emerged in my mind. Unlike the first part, which was permeated by funny dialogues, the second part obviously aims to convey something substantial to the audience. This part barely give rise to laughter and ironically, a man behind me fell into sleep and grunted. But I have to believe the complete Red Cliff, as well as Wu Ji( The Promise), Shi Mian Mai Fu (House of Flying Daggers) etc have been running into the same mode Zhang Yimou created for the first blockbuster in China Hero. And the audience have been more and more tolerant, even numbed with ridiculous plot and stupid dialogue. The military strategies in this film are even far more "romantic" than the Romance of Three Kingdoms and proceed smoothly as a miracle, even we forsake the true history, we still can not explain how it could. The battle scene, rendered by the multi-dimensional technique, seems more cruel and relentless. In a word, i really don't like this kind of "innovative" interpretation of classic works as innovation does not mean distorting common sense.
This expands characters, plot lines and ends with a massive battle unlike anything you've seen-and it will touch you deeply(see below for a note on the all in one version)
dbborroughs1 March 2009
Warning: Spoilers
Picking up immediately after the end of the first film (There is a brief recap during the opening credits but don't think its going to get you up to speed if you haven't seen the first film.) the two opposing armies still sit across the river from each other. The "evil" prime minister with his vast army and navy waits across the water waiting for the right time to strike the assembled warlords from the South. The Warlords on the other hand are drawing up their final plans. They are waiting for more weapons to arrive and for one of their own to return from the enemy camp with vital intelligence. As the film get under way alliances are tested, the dire need of weapons is made clear and typhoid begins to get a foot hold in both camps. As the first 90 or so minutes of the film unfolds the stage is set and things are amped up for a battle that last the better part of an hour and is utterly exhausting.
As a stand alone film, (one that stands alone but is connected to the first film, but not one that you can come upon on its own and hope to understand fully) this is awesome. Its takes a while to get reacquainted to all of the characters and plot lines but once you get a grasp again on every one and everything the film is truly compelling. This is a spectacle and an epic film that puts most Hollywood films to shame. The size of this film is massive. Its clear that most of what you are seeing is real, the people, the places are all real. Yes there is CGI, particularly in the final battle, but then there would have to be simply because you couldn't have done it any other way. I honestly don't have words to describe this film.
To be honest I was a bit disappointed at the start because the film takes a while to get to the battle.Its not that there is anything wrong with the timing, except that when the first film ended I would have thought the battle was going to quickly come. As I said earlier it takes 90 minutes for the battle to actually start, but the time isn't wasted. Characters that were not as well drawn in the first film are fleshed out here. Plot is revealed, twists exposed. and we as the audience is made to connect more. Its all for a reason. I was a bit fidgety in my seat for a while until I realized that it was simply wanting to get to the final show down not because of what was on the screen. I mean how can one quibble where you have sequences like the burning of the bodies, the hospital speech, the scarecrows, or the return of the spy all of which are perfectly constructed set pieces. On top of that you have the wonderful interplay between the characters that makes the final sequence all that more emotional. Once I realized I was being stupid the film fell into place.
This is simply put a great film. It needs to be seen on a big screen close to the first part.
----------
Red Cliff as a whole (both parts) is I think one of the best films I've ever seen. Its an awesome experience. I know I keep saying that but I don't know what else to say. Its a nicely paced five hour film that has fully rounded characters (something it may take the full run time to see happen), fantastic action, deep emotion and almost anything you could want. I don't know how deep the film is but as a "romance" film, in the classical sense, its truly amazing. John Woo has made a masterpiece, though on some level even that is too small a word. Its a film that is only really comparable to films like War and Peace, Lord of the Rings and a handful of others where film becomes an immersion tank. You are dropped in this place and time and for many hours the world passes before your eyes. Its one of those films where you can't even really talk about the flaws because they are so inconsequential (and to be fair some of the things that bothered me about the first film, lack of character for example, are corrected in the large canvas). Even if one were to quibble with some of the visual effects, its kind of pointless because there is no way to have filmed a navy on fire on the scale its seen here with anything other then computer effects.
How in the world are they going to cut this in half? I don't know if its possible. There will be holes in the plot and way too many unrealized characters. In releasing this as a sort film they are going to make a lesser film. Certainly all of the emotion will be drained.
John Woo has made his best film, a film that transcends most other films.
See it- preferably in its full glory.
ADDENDUM:The International (all in one version) If you can see the full two part film. The all in on version loses about 75 or 80 minutes from the first film and a little less from this one. Everything is reduced from the scope and amount of action, to character development and some plot. Characters are missing and things are often confused. The short version rates between 6 and 7 out of 10. Trust me its worth it to see the full version.
As a stand alone film, (one that stands alone but is connected to the first film, but not one that you can come upon on its own and hope to understand fully) this is awesome. Its takes a while to get reacquainted to all of the characters and plot lines but once you get a grasp again on every one and everything the film is truly compelling. This is a spectacle and an epic film that puts most Hollywood films to shame. The size of this film is massive. Its clear that most of what you are seeing is real, the people, the places are all real. Yes there is CGI, particularly in the final battle, but then there would have to be simply because you couldn't have done it any other way. I honestly don't have words to describe this film.
To be honest I was a bit disappointed at the start because the film takes a while to get to the battle.Its not that there is anything wrong with the timing, except that when the first film ended I would have thought the battle was going to quickly come. As I said earlier it takes 90 minutes for the battle to actually start, but the time isn't wasted. Characters that were not as well drawn in the first film are fleshed out here. Plot is revealed, twists exposed. and we as the audience is made to connect more. Its all for a reason. I was a bit fidgety in my seat for a while until I realized that it was simply wanting to get to the final show down not because of what was on the screen. I mean how can one quibble where you have sequences like the burning of the bodies, the hospital speech, the scarecrows, or the return of the spy all of which are perfectly constructed set pieces. On top of that you have the wonderful interplay between the characters that makes the final sequence all that more emotional. Once I realized I was being stupid the film fell into place.
This is simply put a great film. It needs to be seen on a big screen close to the first part.
----------
Red Cliff as a whole (both parts) is I think one of the best films I've ever seen. Its an awesome experience. I know I keep saying that but I don't know what else to say. Its a nicely paced five hour film that has fully rounded characters (something it may take the full run time to see happen), fantastic action, deep emotion and almost anything you could want. I don't know how deep the film is but as a "romance" film, in the classical sense, its truly amazing. John Woo has made a masterpiece, though on some level even that is too small a word. Its a film that is only really comparable to films like War and Peace, Lord of the Rings and a handful of others where film becomes an immersion tank. You are dropped in this place and time and for many hours the world passes before your eyes. Its one of those films where you can't even really talk about the flaws because they are so inconsequential (and to be fair some of the things that bothered me about the first film, lack of character for example, are corrected in the large canvas). Even if one were to quibble with some of the visual effects, its kind of pointless because there is no way to have filmed a navy on fire on the scale its seen here with anything other then computer effects.
How in the world are they going to cut this in half? I don't know if its possible. There will be holes in the plot and way too many unrealized characters. In releasing this as a sort film they are going to make a lesser film. Certainly all of the emotion will be drained.
John Woo has made his best film, a film that transcends most other films.
See it- preferably in its full glory.
ADDENDUM:The International (all in one version) If you can see the full two part film. The all in on version loses about 75 or 80 minutes from the first film and a little less from this one. Everything is reduced from the scope and amount of action, to character development and some plot. Characters are missing and things are often confused. The short version rates between 6 and 7 out of 10. Trust me its worth it to see the full version.
A Nutshell Review: Red Cliff II
DICK STEEL9 January 2009
It's been a six month wait for the second and final half to John Woo's magnum opus Red Cliff, and for those familiar with the classic but have not watched the first installment, the director doesn't waste time in bringing you up to speed with an excellent summary, so much so that the transitional technique used was carried over to the main movie proper. And for those who complained about the pigeon soaring over the sky overseeing a football game at the Cao Cao (Zhang Fengyi) camp, there're perfect explanations for those too.
Yes, just when you think it was frivolous of Woo to have added his signature pigeon shots just for the heck of it, you'll be more than pleased to know that the feathered friends do serve a valid purpose here, as does the football match which introduces a sub plot which again I suspect will give way in the truncated version meant for Western markets. We continue where we last left off, and get to see Vicky Zhao's Sun ShangXiang in an expanded role which is crucial to the overall plotting and strategizing of the finale battle, knocking a bit of the shine off the well known characters of Tony Leung's Zhou Yu and Takeshi Kaneshiro's Zhuge Liang.
But don't fret, as there's still ample and well known episodes where the two men get to show off their cunningness and shrewdness in getting their respective one-ups against their common rival. But alas Zhuge Liang gets to become a clear second fiddle here, since he's all brains but absolutely no brawn, and get left out of fisticuffs, putting his firm grasp of mother nature to the test, that the elements also play a fair bit of tipping advantage. Fans of the character though will smile at recognizable anecdotes presented that have given rise to Chinese proverbs.
By now, one would already know that Zhou Yu is the primary focus of the show (I think Chow Yun-Fat is regretting), given that he's a well rounded man blessed with brains and brawn, and a beautiful wife to boot too. He's honour and duty bound to protect the southern territory of Sun Quan (Zhang Chen), but this becomes something more personal when Xiao Qiao (Lin Chiling) takes it into her own hands to buy the defenders some time by crossing over to Cao Cao and to play the proverbial beauty capable of mesmerizing the prime minister. And her performance in this film was a lot more effective than the last. In fact, the two female characters get meatier roles to play, and for someone like John Woo, I can't remember the last time where he had strong female characters in his films, so this was a treat.
Somehow, Red Cliff 2 ended with a whimper unfortunately, which is a pity. The build up is excellent par none, prepping the audience for the big showdown. Those who had lamented the lack of big battle sequences in the first film, well, you can continue to lament as this one only had ONE which takes up almost the last hour. It's execution, pure and simple, putting into motion what has been planned, and the relentless clockwork that every plan had to follow. While the first film had provided for the famed generals of Liu Bei to each have their individual show pieces to highlight their fighting prowess, this one had none as most of the lead characters0 got relegated to support status, except for Zhao Yun (Hu Jun) whom John Woo has an affinity for.
Fans of Woo's style will see his signature stamped in a lot of action sequences here, which were muted somewhat in the first installment. With Zhao Yun and Zhou Yu, one can tell Woo was probably brimming with glee to design the action set pieces for these two warriors, reminiscent of many of his signature brotherhood series, trading guns for swords here. The two trade barbs of camaraderie, and fight alongside each other, feeding off each other's moves. They battle in parallel, perfectly framed as if in split screen, and I think it's inevitable to have the hero and villain in a stand-off, with support from everyone else wondering who will make the next move.
And here's where purists will be up in arms again, because of how the film ended, which went askew from what would have happened, involving both Cao Cao and Guan Yu and that flight of retreat. But I guess if Peter Jackson had some liberties taken, then Woo too should be cut some slack in order to dramatize Red Cliff for the screen. So too would fans of the other characters be upset, because you don't see much of your idols in action here, which mostly got relegated to plenty of pretty fireballs and raging flames on just much everything, and arrows being the weapon of choice for mass destruction here. Individual, stylized fight scenes no longer are the highlight as per the previous film.
On the whole it's been a long while since I'd seen an epic of this scale from Chinese cinema, and thank goodness that the rumoured, cringe-worthy lines of dialogue are just that - rumours and nowhere to be found. Come awards time, I'd expect this film to be raking some major accolades. Despite its minute flaws, this is still highly recommended just to complete the saga, and I think I'll get the DVD of both parts should they come in one combined edition.
Yes, just when you think it was frivolous of Woo to have added his signature pigeon shots just for the heck of it, you'll be more than pleased to know that the feathered friends do serve a valid purpose here, as does the football match which introduces a sub plot which again I suspect will give way in the truncated version meant for Western markets. We continue where we last left off, and get to see Vicky Zhao's Sun ShangXiang in an expanded role which is crucial to the overall plotting and strategizing of the finale battle, knocking a bit of the shine off the well known characters of Tony Leung's Zhou Yu and Takeshi Kaneshiro's Zhuge Liang.
But don't fret, as there's still ample and well known episodes where the two men get to show off their cunningness and shrewdness in getting their respective one-ups against their common rival. But alas Zhuge Liang gets to become a clear second fiddle here, since he's all brains but absolutely no brawn, and get left out of fisticuffs, putting his firm grasp of mother nature to the test, that the elements also play a fair bit of tipping advantage. Fans of the character though will smile at recognizable anecdotes presented that have given rise to Chinese proverbs.
By now, one would already know that Zhou Yu is the primary focus of the show (I think Chow Yun-Fat is regretting), given that he's a well rounded man blessed with brains and brawn, and a beautiful wife to boot too. He's honour and duty bound to protect the southern territory of Sun Quan (Zhang Chen), but this becomes something more personal when Xiao Qiao (Lin Chiling) takes it into her own hands to buy the defenders some time by crossing over to Cao Cao and to play the proverbial beauty capable of mesmerizing the prime minister. And her performance in this film was a lot more effective than the last. In fact, the two female characters get meatier roles to play, and for someone like John Woo, I can't remember the last time where he had strong female characters in his films, so this was a treat.
Somehow, Red Cliff 2 ended with a whimper unfortunately, which is a pity. The build up is excellent par none, prepping the audience for the big showdown. Those who had lamented the lack of big battle sequences in the first film, well, you can continue to lament as this one only had ONE which takes up almost the last hour. It's execution, pure and simple, putting into motion what has been planned, and the relentless clockwork that every plan had to follow. While the first film had provided for the famed generals of Liu Bei to each have their individual show pieces to highlight their fighting prowess, this one had none as most of the lead characters0 got relegated to support status, except for Zhao Yun (Hu Jun) whom John Woo has an affinity for.
Fans of Woo's style will see his signature stamped in a lot of action sequences here, which were muted somewhat in the first installment. With Zhao Yun and Zhou Yu, one can tell Woo was probably brimming with glee to design the action set pieces for these two warriors, reminiscent of many of his signature brotherhood series, trading guns for swords here. The two trade barbs of camaraderie, and fight alongside each other, feeding off each other's moves. They battle in parallel, perfectly framed as if in split screen, and I think it's inevitable to have the hero and villain in a stand-off, with support from everyone else wondering who will make the next move.
And here's where purists will be up in arms again, because of how the film ended, which went askew from what would have happened, involving both Cao Cao and Guan Yu and that flight of retreat. But I guess if Peter Jackson had some liberties taken, then Woo too should be cut some slack in order to dramatize Red Cliff for the screen. So too would fans of the other characters be upset, because you don't see much of your idols in action here, which mostly got relegated to plenty of pretty fireballs and raging flames on just much everything, and arrows being the weapon of choice for mass destruction here. Individual, stylized fight scenes no longer are the highlight as per the previous film.
On the whole it's been a long while since I'd seen an epic of this scale from Chinese cinema, and thank goodness that the rumoured, cringe-worthy lines of dialogue are just that - rumours and nowhere to be found. Come awards time, I'd expect this film to be raking some major accolades. Despite its minute flaws, this is still highly recommended just to complete the saga, and I think I'll get the DVD of both parts should they come in one combined edition.
Disappointing Ending
jack_lmh16 February 2009
Warning: Spoilers
********** THE COMMENTS MAY CONTAIN SPOILER **************** ********** BE WARNED. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK ****************
IMHO, this show is watchable if you like big scenes and some of the lead actors & actresses...
Best part of the show, I think, is the "borrow arrow" portion.
Second best to me, would be the battle scene.
Worst parts: 1) The Red Cliff battle was supposed to be one of the most important battles in the history of the three kingdoms. It involved a large number of generals and advisers; tactics, tricks and skills. Unfortunately, this show does not display sufficiently.
2) Zhou Yu knowing Zhuge being as smart/smarter than him, and serving Liu Bei, would definitely be great threat to Sun Quan; would definitely find ways to either kill him or withhold him.
3) After so much effort to trap Cao Cao, how would Zhou and gang so easily let him go (Zhou even wanted to locate Cao before his own wife)?!! "Return the tiger to his mountain"
IMHO, this show is watchable if you like big scenes and some of the lead actors & actresses...
Best part of the show, I think, is the "borrow arrow" portion.
Second best to me, would be the battle scene.
Worst parts: 1) The Red Cliff battle was supposed to be one of the most important battles in the history of the three kingdoms. It involved a large number of generals and advisers; tactics, tricks and skills. Unfortunately, this show does not display sufficiently.
2) Zhou Yu knowing Zhuge being as smart/smarter than him, and serving Liu Bei, would definitely be great threat to Sun Quan; would definitely find ways to either kill him or withhold him.
3) After so much effort to trap Cao Cao, how would Zhou and gang so easily let him go (Zhou even wanted to locate Cao before his own wife)?!! "Return the tiger to his mountain"
Red Cliff 2: The Final Showdown
samuelding8516 January 2009
Warning: Spoilers
A quote extracted from the novel in Romance of Three Kingdoms: ' An alliance will be formed after a long separation, and a separation will begin after a long alliance.' And this is the point the audience will receive at the end of Red Cliff 2.
While it seems to make sense for John Woo to come with an American edit version (which concentrates the story in two hours) out of Red Cliff Part 1 and 2 (total of five hours), sometimes, it is much more better to see whole picture, than to force a chunk of concentration. This explains why some Asians grumbled that they have to pay for the price of 2 tickets to see a whole story.
Red Cliff 2 continues from where it ended in Part 1: The Battle of Sanjiangkou. After the alliance between the Kingdom of Xu, led by Liu Bei, and East Wu, led by Sun Quan, has defeated Cao Cao's army, Cao Cao has suffered a major setback.
While the battle is fight with honor, Cao Cao's plot of spreading typhoid using the dead soldier's body to Red Cliff, causing an outbreak of typhoid among the soldiers of Xu and East Wu. And so it forces Viceroy Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang, the military strategist of Liu Bei, to come out with plans to paralyze Cao Cao's army. Eventually, the whole story ends with a hour of the battle of Red Cliff, which makes the movie the main highlight.
To avoid twisting the historical facts for commercial purpose, John Woo has ensured that sufficient time is given to tell the story. This can be explained by the 5 hour duration for the whole story to be told.
More feelings of emotions were focused in Part 2, compared to Part 1. Sun Shangxiang (Vicki Zhao Wei), the Princess of East Wu, falls in love with a soldier from Cao Cao's army. Their affection was displayed thru a very simple piggyback ride, which enables Shangxiang to draw a map of Cao's formation when infiltrating herself into Cao's army. Compared to the much hyped and unnecessary physical intimacy between Zhou Yu (Tony Leung Chiu Wai) and his wife, Xiao Qiao (Chiling Lin), the former seems to fit in much more better to the war epic.
For those who are expecting more wit in Part 2, they will be rewarded with the psychological tactic and the famous 'Borrowing the arrows using the scarecrows', which was one of the main highlight in Three Kingdoms. Reprising his role as Zhuge Liang, Takeshi Kaneshiro displays the wit of Zhuge and his ability of forecasting the weather to trick Cao's navy into shooting arrows to them when they are lack of arrows.
The much talked about battle of Rec Cliff is the main reason why one should pay for two tickets to see them. The battle begins with the most frequently used quote: 'Everything is ready, except the east wind.' Here, Zhou Yu and Sun Quan's navy are using the fire to burn Cao Cao's navy, which combines the two main highlights of the novel: Borrowing the East Wind and The Burning of Battleships. It seems that the breathtaking battle was presented in about 15 minutes, which could have been longer.
The battle also shows the downfall of Cao Cao (Zhang Fengyi), which started with his fascination of Xiao Qiao, and seeing her in person.
Readers of Three Kingdoms will know that the battle of Red Cliff will ended with the formation of three kingdoms. However, John Woo ends the story with the quote from Zhou Yu: 'no one won in the battle.' Thus, the story ends in a very simple presentation, with Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang bidding farewell to each others. What has happened to the rest? With the ending wraps with slight disappointment, fans of Three Kingdoms might expect more more. Nevertheless, John Woo has created one of the best historical war epic in the history of Hong Kong cinema.
It is worth 5 hours your time, if Peter Jackson's big screen creation of J R R Tolken's The Lord of the Rings is your cup of tea.
While it seems to make sense for John Woo to come with an American edit version (which concentrates the story in two hours) out of Red Cliff Part 1 and 2 (total of five hours), sometimes, it is much more better to see whole picture, than to force a chunk of concentration. This explains why some Asians grumbled that they have to pay for the price of 2 tickets to see a whole story.
Red Cliff 2 continues from where it ended in Part 1: The Battle of Sanjiangkou. After the alliance between the Kingdom of Xu, led by Liu Bei, and East Wu, led by Sun Quan, has defeated Cao Cao's army, Cao Cao has suffered a major setback.
While the battle is fight with honor, Cao Cao's plot of spreading typhoid using the dead soldier's body to Red Cliff, causing an outbreak of typhoid among the soldiers of Xu and East Wu. And so it forces Viceroy Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang, the military strategist of Liu Bei, to come out with plans to paralyze Cao Cao's army. Eventually, the whole story ends with a hour of the battle of Red Cliff, which makes the movie the main highlight.
To avoid twisting the historical facts for commercial purpose, John Woo has ensured that sufficient time is given to tell the story. This can be explained by the 5 hour duration for the whole story to be told.
More feelings of emotions were focused in Part 2, compared to Part 1. Sun Shangxiang (Vicki Zhao Wei), the Princess of East Wu, falls in love with a soldier from Cao Cao's army. Their affection was displayed thru a very simple piggyback ride, which enables Shangxiang to draw a map of Cao's formation when infiltrating herself into Cao's army. Compared to the much hyped and unnecessary physical intimacy between Zhou Yu (Tony Leung Chiu Wai) and his wife, Xiao Qiao (Chiling Lin), the former seems to fit in much more better to the war epic.
For those who are expecting more wit in Part 2, they will be rewarded with the psychological tactic and the famous 'Borrowing the arrows using the scarecrows', which was one of the main highlight in Three Kingdoms. Reprising his role as Zhuge Liang, Takeshi Kaneshiro displays the wit of Zhuge and his ability of forecasting the weather to trick Cao's navy into shooting arrows to them when they are lack of arrows.
The much talked about battle of Rec Cliff is the main reason why one should pay for two tickets to see them. The battle begins with the most frequently used quote: 'Everything is ready, except the east wind.' Here, Zhou Yu and Sun Quan's navy are using the fire to burn Cao Cao's navy, which combines the two main highlights of the novel: Borrowing the East Wind and The Burning of Battleships. It seems that the breathtaking battle was presented in about 15 minutes, which could have been longer.
The battle also shows the downfall of Cao Cao (Zhang Fengyi), which started with his fascination of Xiao Qiao, and seeing her in person.
Readers of Three Kingdoms will know that the battle of Red Cliff will ended with the formation of three kingdoms. However, John Woo ends the story with the quote from Zhou Yu: 'no one won in the battle.' Thus, the story ends in a very simple presentation, with Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang bidding farewell to each others. What has happened to the rest? With the ending wraps with slight disappointment, fans of Three Kingdoms might expect more more. Nevertheless, John Woo has created one of the best historical war epic in the history of Hong Kong cinema.
It is worth 5 hours your time, if Peter Jackson's big screen creation of J R R Tolken's The Lord of the Rings is your cup of tea.
A clever adaptation
harry_tk_yung18 January 2009
Warning: Spoilers
For this movie , there will be two main groups of audience. First, there'll be those who know little about the background, be it historical fact or the romanticized historical fiction "The three kingdoms". At the other end of the spectrum, there'll be those who are familiar with the Battle of Red Cliff (be it historical fact or popular novel) just as some people are familiar with Camelot or Alamo. I'm not quite sure which group I am thinking of when I write these comments; probably a bit of both. One more preliminary people who have watched Red Cliff 1 would realize that "2" is not a sequel, but the second half of ONE movie that has been artificially severed into two. Not that this sort of thing has not been done before, but I hope that movie makers will refrain from doing it again. It's not fair to the audience. Italy's "The best of youth", is not an iota too long at its 6 hours of running time because it's such a good movie. Red Cliff should be trimmed to a single movie of three-and-a-half to four hours.
Right at the start of "2", we see some of the clever things John Woo has done bringing the audience closer, with connection to the modern world. It actually starts with a soccer game-a-la-Han-Dynasty, played by the soldiers for relaxation before the big battle. This is not far-fetched, as the game may well have been played in the same manner back then as it is today. Then there is even biological warfare when Cao Cao sends bodies of his infected dead soldiers on rafts drifting into his enemy's camp. But there are also things that ARE far-fetched, such as Princess Sun (ZHAO Wei) playing spy, disguising as a soldier living in the enemy's camp.
A really smart thing though is taking two well-known anecdotes and running them parallel as reciprocal challenges between the two top-notch strategists Zhou Yu (Tony Leung) and Zhuge Liang (Takeshi Kaneshiro), each putting his life down for failing to fulfill his end of the bargain. Their assignments, respectively, are to trick Cao Cao into killing his two best generals and to secure a huge supply of arrows from heaven knows where. This is one of the best parts of the movie, filled with dramatic tension as well as relieving humour. Depicting the rivalry-cum-comradeship between two heroes who have great respect for each other is of course vintage John Woo.
The heart and soul of the movie, the battle itself, is a joy to watch. I wouldn't dwell on the technical side other than complimenting on the high standard it has achieved, under the hands of no less than three technical directors. At the helm, John Woo has again done something very clever removing the supernatural element of the original novel which has Zhuge Liang "calling" the wind to change direction to sweep the fire into the enemy warships. Instead, he attribute the critical event to the strategist's ability, be it an art or a science, to predict weather patterns. On the debit side of the balance sheet, however, there is another very far-fetched arrangement, for Zhao Yu's wife Xiao Qiao (Lin Chi-ling), whom Cao covets, to go into the enemy camp by herself and delay Cao's decision making by just enough to completely tip the scale of the battle another instance in movies when the audience are asked to stretch their gullibility to the limit.
One cannot help but notice that the two flaws in the movie involve the two female leads. I think there is a logical reason. "The three kingdoms" is a macho story. In enriching the movie for general consumption, John Woo has to create material for his two female leads almost out of a vacuum. He has in fact been quite successful, from the angle of dramatic appeal, albeit at the cost of some sacrifice of common sense and logic.
This is a high quality, entertaining movie which John Woo has succeeded in creating by a very clever decision to concentrate on a simple agenda - The Battle of Red Cliff despite the lure of numerous potential sub-plot. The entire cast performs well (although some better than others), at least maintaining the level they have achieved in "1", and some with developments and growths that the audience will be delighted to see (most noticeably Lin Chi-ling). Obviously, it cannot conclude without John Woo's signature scene of a face off this time, it is swords rather than guns. From John Woo fans, this will extract smiles of recognition or chuckles of merriment. But never mind. It's just a movie. The pigeons in this movie, at least, serve a real purpose.
Right at the start of "2", we see some of the clever things John Woo has done bringing the audience closer, with connection to the modern world. It actually starts with a soccer game-a-la-Han-Dynasty, played by the soldiers for relaxation before the big battle. This is not far-fetched, as the game may well have been played in the same manner back then as it is today. Then there is even biological warfare when Cao Cao sends bodies of his infected dead soldiers on rafts drifting into his enemy's camp. But there are also things that ARE far-fetched, such as Princess Sun (ZHAO Wei) playing spy, disguising as a soldier living in the enemy's camp.
A really smart thing though is taking two well-known anecdotes and running them parallel as reciprocal challenges between the two top-notch strategists Zhou Yu (Tony Leung) and Zhuge Liang (Takeshi Kaneshiro), each putting his life down for failing to fulfill his end of the bargain. Their assignments, respectively, are to trick Cao Cao into killing his two best generals and to secure a huge supply of arrows from heaven knows where. This is one of the best parts of the movie, filled with dramatic tension as well as relieving humour. Depicting the rivalry-cum-comradeship between two heroes who have great respect for each other is of course vintage John Woo.
The heart and soul of the movie, the battle itself, is a joy to watch. I wouldn't dwell on the technical side other than complimenting on the high standard it has achieved, under the hands of no less than three technical directors. At the helm, John Woo has again done something very clever removing the supernatural element of the original novel which has Zhuge Liang "calling" the wind to change direction to sweep the fire into the enemy warships. Instead, he attribute the critical event to the strategist's ability, be it an art or a science, to predict weather patterns. On the debit side of the balance sheet, however, there is another very far-fetched arrangement, for Zhao Yu's wife Xiao Qiao (Lin Chi-ling), whom Cao covets, to go into the enemy camp by herself and delay Cao's decision making by just enough to completely tip the scale of the battle another instance in movies when the audience are asked to stretch their gullibility to the limit.
One cannot help but notice that the two flaws in the movie involve the two female leads. I think there is a logical reason. "The three kingdoms" is a macho story. In enriching the movie for general consumption, John Woo has to create material for his two female leads almost out of a vacuum. He has in fact been quite successful, from the angle of dramatic appeal, albeit at the cost of some sacrifice of common sense and logic.
This is a high quality, entertaining movie which John Woo has succeeded in creating by a very clever decision to concentrate on a simple agenda - The Battle of Red Cliff despite the lure of numerous potential sub-plot. The entire cast performs well (although some better than others), at least maintaining the level they have achieved in "1", and some with developments and growths that the audience will be delighted to see (most noticeably Lin Chi-ling). Obviously, it cannot conclude without John Woo's signature scene of a face off this time, it is swords rather than guns. From John Woo fans, this will extract smiles of recognition or chuckles of merriment. But never mind. It's just a movie. The pigeons in this movie, at least, serve a real purpose.
Those itching for battle action in Red Cliff II will find their patience tested.
Eternality17 November 2010
Warning: Spoilers
John Woo's Red Cliff II expands on the first film, starting right from where the latter ended. This is not surprising as Woo shot both films as a whole, chopping it into two halves because of its insanely long runtime of five hours and for monetary reasons. Interestingly, there is another version of Red Cliff: the condensed one that America got which I feel might be more effective. The first installment was bravura filmmaking; it boasted solid direction by Woo, exhibited excellent story and character developments, and was one of my top ten films of the first half of 2008.
Red Cliff II, on the other hand, falls short of its predecessor, and falls short of my expectations of an ambitious Chinese production, and especially one by John Woo. While most of the characters have been succinctly developed in the earlier picture, I feel that there is still room for scenes of emotional weight that can exploit the close brotherhood amongst the leading men. That being said, there is not enough screen time for the supporting cast who were colorful and vibrant in the first film. Thus, when the battle for Red Cliff finally begins after nearly ninety minutes, the camaraderie and chemistry amongst the characters more than dissipate into the hell of warfare.
Those itching for battle action in Red Cliff II will find their patience tested. While some may feel that the building up of the story serves as good fodder for a spectacular climatic battle, I beg to differ. Even though there are flaws, the drama scenes in the first hour are decent enough to sustain interest. Yet I find it hard to describe the battle sequences in the same way. While they are technically impressive, they lack grandeur and real excitement.
The famous naval battle in which Cao Cao's fleet of warships get burnt one by one, as the fiery flames are spread by gusts of wind, is recreated with some aid from CGI technology. Unfortunately, Woo's direction seems like a mess. There are too many close-up shots of soldiers engulfed in flames, and then there are explosions which are too frequent for my liking. There are insufficient scenes depicting the scale of the attack which would have been aptly captured with several 'bird's eye view' takes. The abrupt ending unfortunately leaves little hope for a satisfying conclusion to John Woo's epic. On a brighter note, Red Cliff II alone is actually an averagely decent motion picture, despite being inferior to the first movie.
SCORE: 7/10 (www.filmnomenon.blogspot.com) All rights reserved!
Red Cliff II, on the other hand, falls short of its predecessor, and falls short of my expectations of an ambitious Chinese production, and especially one by John Woo. While most of the characters have been succinctly developed in the earlier picture, I feel that there is still room for scenes of emotional weight that can exploit the close brotherhood amongst the leading men. That being said, there is not enough screen time for the supporting cast who were colorful and vibrant in the first film. Thus, when the battle for Red Cliff finally begins after nearly ninety minutes, the camaraderie and chemistry amongst the characters more than dissipate into the hell of warfare.
Those itching for battle action in Red Cliff II will find their patience tested. While some may feel that the building up of the story serves as good fodder for a spectacular climatic battle, I beg to differ. Even though there are flaws, the drama scenes in the first hour are decent enough to sustain interest. Yet I find it hard to describe the battle sequences in the same way. While they are technically impressive, they lack grandeur and real excitement.
The famous naval battle in which Cao Cao's fleet of warships get burnt one by one, as the fiery flames are spread by gusts of wind, is recreated with some aid from CGI technology. Unfortunately, Woo's direction seems like a mess. There are too many close-up shots of soldiers engulfed in flames, and then there are explosions which are too frequent for my liking. There are insufficient scenes depicting the scale of the attack which would have been aptly captured with several 'bird's eye view' takes. The abrupt ending unfortunately leaves little hope for a satisfying conclusion to John Woo's epic. On a brighter note, Red Cliff II alone is actually an averagely decent motion picture, despite being inferior to the first movie.
SCORE: 7/10 (www.filmnomenon.blogspot.com) All rights reserved!
Great John Woo movie marred by a bad ending...
taroqq26 March 2009
Warning: Spoilers
I pretty much agreed w/ the reviews of 'A Nutshell Review' and '(lovehkfilm.com)'. I'm a bit less enthusiastic than the latter because of the ending (more on that later), but I do agree w/ him that this is the best John Woo film in the last 10, no, 15, yrs since 'Hard Boiled'.
This is so much better than the 1st part in terms of pacing, story, and dialog that it's not even funny. As a fan of both Woo's HK movies and the novel, I thought there're certain aspects in the story that were handled much better in the movie. For example in the novel, the use of the 33rd stratagem 'Let the enemy's own spy sow discord in the enemy camp' to dispose of Cao Cao's naval generals always comes across as a bit too simplistic; the use of the 34th stratagem 'Inflict injury on one's self to win the enemy's trust' stretches my limit of suspension of disbelief (the reason was explained in the movie), and Zhuge Liang is someone with super-natural powers w/ the ability to change wind directions (as oppose to in the movie where he's just an expert in meteorology).
Sun Shangxiang as a spy in enemy camp did stretched my limit (not because she's female but because of her princess status), but since Zhao Wei's also playing Mulan in a upcoming movie I'll grudgingly accept that for the sake of entertainment. What I couldn't accept was the rushed ending which was handled much better in the novel. Cao Cao should have had more than 2 capable generals at the end to at least stall, if not match the opposition's generals one on one and I would have accepted that, in the melee of trying to save Xiao Qiao, Cao Cao was rushed away by some of his other generals, and that they would not pursue him because after all, it's 50K+ against 800K+ and the victor's would have suffered heavy casualties as well. It was a 9-rating movie up to that point, but since it's Woo's best movie in a while I'll just dock another point.
In conclusion, don't miss this if you're a John Woo fan (of his HK movies).
This is so much better than the 1st part in terms of pacing, story, and dialog that it's not even funny. As a fan of both Woo's HK movies and the novel, I thought there're certain aspects in the story that were handled much better in the movie. For example in the novel, the use of the 33rd stratagem 'Let the enemy's own spy sow discord in the enemy camp' to dispose of Cao Cao's naval generals always comes across as a bit too simplistic; the use of the 34th stratagem 'Inflict injury on one's self to win the enemy's trust' stretches my limit of suspension of disbelief (the reason was explained in the movie), and Zhuge Liang is someone with super-natural powers w/ the ability to change wind directions (as oppose to in the movie where he's just an expert in meteorology).
Sun Shangxiang as a spy in enemy camp did stretched my limit (not because she's female but because of her princess status), but since Zhao Wei's also playing Mulan in a upcoming movie I'll grudgingly accept that for the sake of entertainment. What I couldn't accept was the rushed ending which was handled much better in the novel. Cao Cao should have had more than 2 capable generals at the end to at least stall, if not match the opposition's generals one on one and I would have accepted that, in the melee of trying to save Xiao Qiao, Cao Cao was rushed away by some of his other generals, and that they would not pursue him because after all, it's 50K+ against 800K+ and the victor's would have suffered heavy casualties as well. It was a 9-rating movie up to that point, but since it's Woo's best movie in a while I'll just dock another point.
In conclusion, don't miss this if you're a John Woo fan (of his HK movies).
Chinese War Epic From Director John Woo.
Amyth4714 January 2019
My Rating : 7/10
This is a big-scale visual Chinese war epic and excellently put together and maintains viewer engagement over its 5 hour long runtime which is divided into 2 parts.
Great battle sequences, action and fight scenes and speedy pacing of the story will keep you entertained throughout.
Highly Recommended!
This is a big-scale visual Chinese war epic and excellently put together and maintains viewer engagement over its 5 hour long runtime which is divided into 2 parts.
Great battle sequences, action and fight scenes and speedy pacing of the story will keep you entertained throughout.
Highly Recommended!
John Woo's RED CLIFF deserved a proper theatrical release in North America
BrianDanaCamp14 December 2009
I saw the original two-part five-hour Chinese release version of RED CLIFF on DVD earlier this year. I was eager to see the shortened two-and-a-half-hour North American theatrical release version for two reasons: 1) to see it on the big screen and 2) because I thought that shorter would be better. The five-hour original was simply way too long; there was plenty of material that could have been removed without sacrificing anything.
Magnet Pictures released this film quietly in only two theaters in Manhattan and no theaters in my home borough. By the time I could devote an evening to see it, some three weeks after it opened, it was down to playing at one out-of-the-way theater on the Lower East Side and only at times that were impossible for working people, so I had to make a trip into Manhattan on the weekend for a morning show on Sunday, December 13, 2009. The good news is that I was quite pleased with the final result. I thought it played beautifully at two-and-a-half-hours and found it far more gripping, suspenseful and exciting than the longer version. There are plenty of moments that would have elicited applause, laughter and cheers had this played to a full multiplex crowd on a Friday night at a centrally located theater, say, in Times Square. Unfortunately, it did not have that opportunity. And because it's so inconvenient for most people to see, I can't go around recommending this to the people I think would enjoy it.
I wish that John Woo and his producers had made more of an effort to find a suitable North American distributor for RED CLIFF, the most expensive film yet made in China. From what I've heard, Woo asserted that he made this film for his Chinese audience, to which I respond, what about your American fans? We championed your Hong Kong films for years and ensured a growing reputation here that enabled you to come over in 1993 and begin directing films in Hollywood—the start of a ten-year stretch that made you a wealthy man and a respected auteur the world over. You belong to the world, now, Mr. Woo. Aren't the rest of us entitled to see one of your best films in a proper theatrical setting? After all, five years ago Zhang Yimou's Chinese epic, HERO, was released by Miramax to multiplex theaters across the U.S. and even hit #1 at the box office for its opening weekend. I saw HERO on opening night in a sold-out house at a 42nd Street multiplex in Manhattan with a very respectful audience that seemed to appreciate its stylized tone, fanciful fight scenes, and all-star cast. While not as star-heavy, RED CLIFF is much more of a genuine crowd-pleaser, with a more engaging plot and far more action, and would certainly have sent exhilarated fans out to eagerly spread the word among their friends. Woo's American fanbase deserved the opportunity to do that.
RED CLIFF offers narrative film-making in a classical style that used to be quite common in Hollywood. Among today's American filmmakers, only Quentin Tarantino comes close and only in select films like this year's INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS. RED CLIFF reminds me of the epics that filled me with awe in neighborhood theaters as a child, most notably Anthony Mann's two spectacles, EL CID (1961) and FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE (1964). The failure of RED CLIFF to reach its audience in the U.S. is emblematic of everything that's wrong with movie distribution in this country today.
I've placed this review in the IMDb entry for RED CLIFF Part II, because that's the part that comprises the bulk of the North American release version.
Magnet Pictures released this film quietly in only two theaters in Manhattan and no theaters in my home borough. By the time I could devote an evening to see it, some three weeks after it opened, it was down to playing at one out-of-the-way theater on the Lower East Side and only at times that were impossible for working people, so I had to make a trip into Manhattan on the weekend for a morning show on Sunday, December 13, 2009. The good news is that I was quite pleased with the final result. I thought it played beautifully at two-and-a-half-hours and found it far more gripping, suspenseful and exciting than the longer version. There are plenty of moments that would have elicited applause, laughter and cheers had this played to a full multiplex crowd on a Friday night at a centrally located theater, say, in Times Square. Unfortunately, it did not have that opportunity. And because it's so inconvenient for most people to see, I can't go around recommending this to the people I think would enjoy it.
I wish that John Woo and his producers had made more of an effort to find a suitable North American distributor for RED CLIFF, the most expensive film yet made in China. From what I've heard, Woo asserted that he made this film for his Chinese audience, to which I respond, what about your American fans? We championed your Hong Kong films for years and ensured a growing reputation here that enabled you to come over in 1993 and begin directing films in Hollywood—the start of a ten-year stretch that made you a wealthy man and a respected auteur the world over. You belong to the world, now, Mr. Woo. Aren't the rest of us entitled to see one of your best films in a proper theatrical setting? After all, five years ago Zhang Yimou's Chinese epic, HERO, was released by Miramax to multiplex theaters across the U.S. and even hit #1 at the box office for its opening weekend. I saw HERO on opening night in a sold-out house at a 42nd Street multiplex in Manhattan with a very respectful audience that seemed to appreciate its stylized tone, fanciful fight scenes, and all-star cast. While not as star-heavy, RED CLIFF is much more of a genuine crowd-pleaser, with a more engaging plot and far more action, and would certainly have sent exhilarated fans out to eagerly spread the word among their friends. Woo's American fanbase deserved the opportunity to do that.
RED CLIFF offers narrative film-making in a classical style that used to be quite common in Hollywood. Among today's American filmmakers, only Quentin Tarantino comes close and only in select films like this year's INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS. RED CLIFF reminds me of the epics that filled me with awe in neighborhood theaters as a child, most notably Anthony Mann's two spectacles, EL CID (1961) and FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE (1964). The failure of RED CLIFF to reach its audience in the U.S. is emblematic of everything that's wrong with movie distribution in this country today.
I've placed this review in the IMDb entry for RED CLIFF Part II, because that's the part that comprises the bulk of the North American release version.
John Woo continues on with his historical epic.
oneguyrambling8 November 2010
Apparently the Red Cliff movies are very skewed towards a more bias "truth" that changes events to the point where it is less an historical drama than it is a reimagining. Even though I did Chinese history in high school I did more modern stuff, and in any case I am reviewing a movie, not fact-checking it.
Given this is Red Cliff 2 we start with an "In last week's episode" flashback, that thankfully condenses the first movie into a tight 3 minutes, and also multi-tasks the credits in there as well.
A good thing when the movie is more than 2 hours long already.
The opening scene doesn't bode well for the viewer, it is a tacky soccer game filled with dumb coincidences and forced bits, at the end of which we are expected to believe that a dumb soccer player and a woman in the crowd masquerading as a male soldier become instant fast friends. More than that no-one, including the dumb soccer guy, know she is a chick until the end of the film.
My 20 second update for you at home: Cao-Cao: The bad guy, controls the other bad guys. Confident and arrogant.
Zhou Yu & Zhu Ge: The good guys, both impossibly cool and nice regardless of the circumstances. From different armies though now close friends and allies. Zhou Yu runs the show while Zhu Ge is more a 2IC/confidante in the wings.
The scenario: The two armies are separated by a river, Cao-Cao has a greater navy and army, the goodies are holed up in their fortress. Both sides are second guessing the strategy of the other.
Back to the war. Cao-Cao's army is stricken with typhoid, suffering many casualties, and rather than allow all those good bodies to go to waste Cao-Cao simply floats them across to the goodies' side, where for some reason rather than saying "Ew gross! Dead Chinese guys!" They drag the rafts onshore and go about pickpocketing the corpses. OK I can sorta see it now.
Another goodie Army leader Lui Bei decides "F this for a joke" and leaves, taking his previously loyal army with him. Rather than start an in-fight Zhou Yu thanks him for his time and lets Lui Bei go.
Meanwhile Cao-Cao locks his naval boats together in a seemingly impenetrable line near his armies' shoreline, to ward off attack.
There are spies on both sides at all times, though they seem privy to more info than your normal spy might get.
The goodies desperately need arrows, and they also want to cause disruption and unrest in Cao-Cao's forces to divide the army. In a little over 10 minutes of screen time Zhou Yu and Zhu Ge manage to do both, opening up the potential for an attack.
Cao-Cao is p*ssed with proceedings, and orders an attack himself in two day's time. Also, the typhoid outbreak is only getting worse, so Cao-Cao needs to get things done while the health of his army allows.
It turns out that it isn't whose army is bigger or stronger, or whose tactics are superior, but who is a master of the weather condition that will decide this contest.
After a quick dumpling or two the goodies launch an all out frontal assault and you'll never guess who wins...
And I guess in a film like this that isn't really important, especially when John Woo is the guy behind the camera. We have a lot of BIG EXPLOSIONS, much wire work and some slow mo scenes that seem more dramatic than they should be.
And doves. Must remember the doves.
Final Rating - 7 / 10. In a two film series where both films clock in at over two hours the worst thing that can happen is that you get bored. I wasn't bored with this. But at the same time I can't say I long to sit through either film again.
If you liked this review (or even if you didn't) check out oneguyrambling.com
Given this is Red Cliff 2 we start with an "In last week's episode" flashback, that thankfully condenses the first movie into a tight 3 minutes, and also multi-tasks the credits in there as well.
A good thing when the movie is more than 2 hours long already.
The opening scene doesn't bode well for the viewer, it is a tacky soccer game filled with dumb coincidences and forced bits, at the end of which we are expected to believe that a dumb soccer player and a woman in the crowd masquerading as a male soldier become instant fast friends. More than that no-one, including the dumb soccer guy, know she is a chick until the end of the film.
My 20 second update for you at home: Cao-Cao: The bad guy, controls the other bad guys. Confident and arrogant.
Zhou Yu & Zhu Ge: The good guys, both impossibly cool and nice regardless of the circumstances. From different armies though now close friends and allies. Zhou Yu runs the show while Zhu Ge is more a 2IC/confidante in the wings.
The scenario: The two armies are separated by a river, Cao-Cao has a greater navy and army, the goodies are holed up in their fortress. Both sides are second guessing the strategy of the other.
Back to the war. Cao-Cao's army is stricken with typhoid, suffering many casualties, and rather than allow all those good bodies to go to waste Cao-Cao simply floats them across to the goodies' side, where for some reason rather than saying "Ew gross! Dead Chinese guys!" They drag the rafts onshore and go about pickpocketing the corpses. OK I can sorta see it now.
Another goodie Army leader Lui Bei decides "F this for a joke" and leaves, taking his previously loyal army with him. Rather than start an in-fight Zhou Yu thanks him for his time and lets Lui Bei go.
Meanwhile Cao-Cao locks his naval boats together in a seemingly impenetrable line near his armies' shoreline, to ward off attack.
There are spies on both sides at all times, though they seem privy to more info than your normal spy might get.
The goodies desperately need arrows, and they also want to cause disruption and unrest in Cao-Cao's forces to divide the army. In a little over 10 minutes of screen time Zhou Yu and Zhu Ge manage to do both, opening up the potential for an attack.
Cao-Cao is p*ssed with proceedings, and orders an attack himself in two day's time. Also, the typhoid outbreak is only getting worse, so Cao-Cao needs to get things done while the health of his army allows.
It turns out that it isn't whose army is bigger or stronger, or whose tactics are superior, but who is a master of the weather condition that will decide this contest.
After a quick dumpling or two the goodies launch an all out frontal assault and you'll never guess who wins...
And I guess in a film like this that isn't really important, especially when John Woo is the guy behind the camera. We have a lot of BIG EXPLOSIONS, much wire work and some slow mo scenes that seem more dramatic than they should be.
And doves. Must remember the doves.
Final Rating - 7 / 10. In a two film series where both films clock in at over two hours the worst thing that can happen is that you get bored. I wasn't bored with this. But at the same time I can't say I long to sit through either film again.
If you liked this review (or even if you didn't) check out oneguyrambling.com
Truly overly overrated.
Chris_fk10 January 2009
Warning: Spoilers
First and fore Most.....i must confess that i did not watch part 1 because i was never a fan of Woo epic films like wind talker(i am a fan of face off for its stylistic action), and after much persuasion from my friends at how good this show will be..i decided..i would fork out money to watch.i must comment that part 2 was a straight forward film that did not require must backtracking to part 1..
when one enter the cinema..with a title like red cliff and a stellar cast.One would need no introduction to who they are or even question their acting capability..but the one doubt i had....was...john woo as the director...woo is a credible director when it comes to the action gun fight genre who pioneer the dual gun fight to the west...but a "epic" movie? well i have my doubts....
The Film tries to be smart..showing you the strategies and the individual character's intellect..it does succeed in making it a smart movie..but at the expense of "realism" don't you feel the character are often very stiff and unemotional and there were many often..to many of a comic relief..which i feel.doesn't quite well to this genre of Epic war movie..imagine Lord of the ring,saving private Ryan,brave heart gladiator.injected with tons of humor? what would it do to the mood and the tone of the film? ,many of us actually question the tactics,which woo fails to execute with realism and looks extremely flawed on screen..i din knowthat Zhouyu was a suicidal embracing tactician.i thought he would face his opponent face to face? the naval battle? it was a Massacre for caocao's force, i wonder what hurricane force wind did zhugeliang summon/predict with so much accuracy.it puts all meteorological service to shame..maybe he could tell us..when is the world gonna end? the wind spread so fast. it burnt caocao navy before he could utter anything..yes i know they are carrying gun powder on board.but think for a second..how far the fleet is..and how massive it is suppose to be..
You never feel attach to any character..and woo depiction of heroism is wasted/flawed,countless men and leader sacrifice their life, but sadly u feel none for them.why is this so? i keep wondering..when a character from another movie dies.u feel his pain,u sorry for him,u feel how great noble he is..but in this show..u feel none...many great leader are just looking to waste their life here.
the film's strategy is also greatly flawed...we all know how china produce great china Olympian.but this movie puts all their hard work to shame..Pole vaulting with one hand? in the middle of a war? what is this? caocao as dumb as to put someone who's great in soccer a platoon commander? imagine Wayne Rooney to lead the forces of England to battle just because prince Charles fancy him in soccer..is caocao really that dumb as woo depicts him in the movie...i totally cannot believe it..to kill 2 of his trusted navy admiral without even questioning much? Woo has another amazing ability to slow mo emotional scenes.the part about piggy and the good dumb guy.this is the only part i feel a slight emotional..but the whole war just seem to stop there..and allow a moment of sentiments.../grief to set in.
lin chi ling falling down..and how zhouyu runs faster than Neo in the matrix/or the china hurdle champion is just unbearable to watch....how the archer shot the arrow to trim caocao hair just put Leonidas to shame in 300...maybe Leonidas thinks Xerxes needed a tooth pick so he gave him a bigger one.. guys i could go on and on...
overall this films lacks the emotional grab..the tension isn't there. the character are more wooden than wood,there is only 1 saving private Ryan,1 return of the king,1 brave heart, 1 gladiator, and this show..chi bi.is just isn't it..john woo ruined what could be the best war epic in china history...
and Mr woo...enough with the pigeons/dove flying,we know you're fascinated by them
when one enter the cinema..with a title like red cliff and a stellar cast.One would need no introduction to who they are or even question their acting capability..but the one doubt i had....was...john woo as the director...woo is a credible director when it comes to the action gun fight genre who pioneer the dual gun fight to the west...but a "epic" movie? well i have my doubts....
The Film tries to be smart..showing you the strategies and the individual character's intellect..it does succeed in making it a smart movie..but at the expense of "realism" don't you feel the character are often very stiff and unemotional and there were many often..to many of a comic relief..which i feel.doesn't quite well to this genre of Epic war movie..imagine Lord of the ring,saving private Ryan,brave heart gladiator.injected with tons of humor? what would it do to the mood and the tone of the film? ,many of us actually question the tactics,which woo fails to execute with realism and looks extremely flawed on screen..i din knowthat Zhouyu was a suicidal embracing tactician.i thought he would face his opponent face to face? the naval battle? it was a Massacre for caocao's force, i wonder what hurricane force wind did zhugeliang summon/predict with so much accuracy.it puts all meteorological service to shame..maybe he could tell us..when is the world gonna end? the wind spread so fast. it burnt caocao navy before he could utter anything..yes i know they are carrying gun powder on board.but think for a second..how far the fleet is..and how massive it is suppose to be..
You never feel attach to any character..and woo depiction of heroism is wasted/flawed,countless men and leader sacrifice their life, but sadly u feel none for them.why is this so? i keep wondering..when a character from another movie dies.u feel his pain,u sorry for him,u feel how great noble he is..but in this show..u feel none...many great leader are just looking to waste their life here.
the film's strategy is also greatly flawed...we all know how china produce great china Olympian.but this movie puts all their hard work to shame..Pole vaulting with one hand? in the middle of a war? what is this? caocao as dumb as to put someone who's great in soccer a platoon commander? imagine Wayne Rooney to lead the forces of England to battle just because prince Charles fancy him in soccer..is caocao really that dumb as woo depicts him in the movie...i totally cannot believe it..to kill 2 of his trusted navy admiral without even questioning much? Woo has another amazing ability to slow mo emotional scenes.the part about piggy and the good dumb guy.this is the only part i feel a slight emotional..but the whole war just seem to stop there..and allow a moment of sentiments.../grief to set in.
lin chi ling falling down..and how zhouyu runs faster than Neo in the matrix/or the china hurdle champion is just unbearable to watch....how the archer shot the arrow to trim caocao hair just put Leonidas to shame in 300...maybe Leonidas thinks Xerxes needed a tooth pick so he gave him a bigger one.. guys i could go on and on...
overall this films lacks the emotional grab..the tension isn't there. the character are more wooden than wood,there is only 1 saving private Ryan,1 return of the king,1 brave heart, 1 gladiator, and this show..chi bi.is just isn't it..john woo ruined what could be the best war epic in china history...
and Mr woo...enough with the pigeons/dove flying,we know you're fascinated by them
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